mAsaru yamasaki

A native Californian, Mas was born in Sacramento, the fifth of seven sons. During the war, he and his family were incarcerated in Tule Lake. His family relocated to Berkeley after the war and later, Mas served in the U.S. Army during the Korean War. He was a Dharma school teacher in his later years. In recalling his time in Tule Lake, he remembers being afraid, with realizing the total amount of vulnerability the community was experiencing. “In a way, it scared me. I said, you know, they could kill us and nothing, nobody, you know. Especially when I saw the soldiers with guns and rifles and it seemed like, Wow, we’re like prisoners here.”

Mas passed away at age 86 in 2015 while living in Fremont.

So, Mas. We're at your home here in Fremont. Can we start with your name? Your full name?

My full name? It's Masaro Yamasaki, however, everyone calls me Mas. Anglicized ever since I was growing up, you know how Niseis at that time like to either have a nickname or shortened your Japanese name. And I was no exception. So I took the name of Mas. I was born in Sacramento, California in 1929. My parents had a tofu store right in the heart of the Japantown in Sacramento. And I guess I lived the typical Nisei life. Going to school, public school in the morning and afternoon and one hour of each day I attended the Japanese language school.

And I thought I lived a normal life. And the war broke out on December 7th, 1941, soon after that, the Executive Order 9066, declared by President Franklin Roosevelt, evacuated all Japanese on the West Coast.

You were 11 years old. 

12 years old. 

12 years old right. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, do you remember that day?

Yes, I remember that Sunday. Because one of the things I lived for was basketball. And I used to follow basketball because we didn't have a television those days. And the only affordable type of entertainment was to see the Nisei league basketball. Those were the Michael Jordan's of our days. And we had Nisei teams from all over the West Coast, from Seattle to Los Angeles, San Francisco and it was something to behold because you see all these basketball teams.

You know, they had a league in Sacramento. But during the off season, they have tournaments or games against different Nisei teams from different cities. And I would always look forward to some of the teams because you would read about them in the Nichi Bei Times.

I was a spectator. However what I did was I kept score. You know, they had a scoreboard, not electronic, but manual [kind] and all these numbers. Visitors and home team. I was able to get in there for free. I would watch two or three games, you know, and not only watch it, but enjoy it.

Tell me about that Sunday when Pearl Harbor happened.

Well, that Sunday, that particular Sunday, I went to see the basketball games and all of a sudden somebody from…a spectator had a radio, portable radio. And he said the “bombing of the Pearl Harbor.” And I said, “What was that?” And he said, “Japan bombed Pearl Harbor,” and it was unbelievable. And they continued the game, but I felt, gee, I better go home and talk to and be with my parents. And so I went home and I don't recall too much about it. And I talked to my brothers and they said, I can't believe that this thing happened, even though people were saying that eventually there'll be a war with Japan.

Well, soon after a while prior to that, I remember there was talk about putting the Japanese into camps for security. And I used to say, “Hey, they can't do that. You know, I'm an American citizen. I have my constitutional rights.” You know, that doesn't cut any mustard type of thing. And I always wondered to know what's wrong with the government. Why isn't, why aren't they protecting us.

Well can you tell me what the atmosphere was like at school the following day.

Well actually it wasn't too bad because we were, like I said, in the ghetto of Sacramento and I would venture to say 80% were all Asian, Chinese, Japanese, few African-Americans, Mexicans and hardly any Caucasians. It seem as though there were more Japanese than any other.

Can we back up a little bit? I didn't ask you about where your parents were born. You’re Nisei or Sansei. And so your parents came directly from Japan?

Yeah. They said they came here to better themselves and make money and go back to Japan.

Do you know if they came from farming?

You know, they came from a farm near the outskirts of the city of Hiroshima.

But tell me about your father. Was he the only one in his family that came or-

See, I think he went to Hawaii. You know, I never did ask him about his background from, but I could just gather from what my brothers and everybody was telling me. And apparently, when he came here, .mkk one of his cousins, somebody had a farm that they were working on. So this is in Chico, in Northern California.

He worked there as a family. And my mother said that they wanted to go independent, to be rather than be in the Yamazaki clan type of thing. She wanted to separate herself because she felt that she wanted to rear a family and be more independent. So they farmed in Stockton. From what I gather, one year they had a good crop of string beans. And rather than to invest that money back into the farmlands or try to work out a farm, they decide to come to Sacramento. Because they had a Japantown, and first they bought various businesses, and then they ended up buying a tofu store.

So your parents were business people and that they tried a lot of different businesses.

Well, they had a bar, a saloon type of thing, a Mexican restaurant. And then they ended up buying this tofu store.

So we got as far as describing the school activities and the academics and you didn't notice any difference in the atmosphere at school after Pearl Harbor.

No, like I said, it's mainly because you know nothing about Japanese. But I do recall our teacher in the seventh grade said that, “A horrible thing happened yesterday. But I want you to know that we shouldn't harbor any grudges among one race.” And because of what happened then, she tried to emphasize that for all Americans.

And you know, I always felt that way being in school. I didn't feel any pressure. I mean every once in a while when we were growing up there would be name calling, as kids they would call us Japs and I used to beat the heck out of them. Fortunately I was taking judo and sumo and what have you. And once they knew that, I mean everybody was afraid of us, especially the blacks, the Mexicans and the Chinese. So we were a threat, actually. I mean, even if they wanted to say something they never did. They never said it because once they said that word there, they got beaten up.

Well, throughout my school from the time I was in kindergarten, I always felt that I was proud of the fact that I was a Japanese American. And if anybody called me a “Jap” I said, “What did you call me?” And the first thing I would do is throw a punch or come in first before anything.

Was it pretty common back then for kids to call people a “Jap”?

Um, not too much, because when I was growing up other kids would say that they got the word not to use it. We got the message across. But that didn't stop the press or the newspapers. You know it's always there. And once in a while I would hear from one of the kids saying, or Miss so and so said all those Jap kids they'd taken over the school type of thing.

I mean we haven't taken over, we're just excelling at whatever we do. But we're good participants, you know, when we do it, we do our best - academically, sports wise, you know.

So tell me about the word, the use of the word Jap. You know, after Pearl Harbor, I know there were lots of magazine and newspaper articles, radio announcements that used the word Jap. How was it before Pearl Harbor?

Well, I was 12 years old, and the only recollection was probably through the newspaper or some other Caucasian or someone at the store would make snide remarks.

At your store?

No, if we go to the market or I'm going to a department store. “Those Japs again,” or something like that, you know.

So you would hear it out in public?

And my mom and dad would say, “Just let it go,” because I wasn't about to get into an argument with an adult. Well, you know, this thing carried on throughout the time I grew up, because even in the army, I had a lot of run-ins with lots of soldiers, you know, GIs and I used to fight them too.

Well, you were only 12 when Pearl Harbor happened. So what years were you in the Army?

Well, back in the fifties of 51, 52, when I got drafted

So. 51. 52. Where did you serve?

I served in Korea. Well, that's getting kind of far ahead. After the bombing of Pearl Harbor, when Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066 on February, 19, 1942, shortly after that, we were evacuated to an assembly center called Welerga. And that was about ten miles north of Sacramento. It was in a barren isolated area, and they had tar paper shacks and no indoor plumbing, no running water and things like that.

You mean they had pumps?

They had the faucet every so often located on the outside.

So there were no bathhouses or…

They had what they called the out house type of thing where they converted them into showers.

So this was a fair ground or-

No, no, it was pretty close to Mather Air Force Base in Sacramento. I don't know exactly where the campground was, but they just figured that was an open area, isolated. And they built barracks over there, temporary quarters and there were approximately 5000 of us there.

Do you remember the move to the assembly center?

Yes, first we went to the Memorial Auditorium in downtown Sacramento and we assembled there. And from there they put us on the bus and then we went to Walerga.

Well, do you remember the type of commotion at your home? I mean, were your parents resigned? Were they outwardly angry inwardly angry?

I mean, it was very difficult because they didn't express themselves.

They didn’t talk about it. What could they do? And my father and mother always said, “Make the best of the situation.” This is something that I learned from my life. Make the best of the situation.

Did they sell their business?

No they couldn't sell it. They were leasing it, you know. Right. And they try to sell a lot of the equipment. But who's going to buy tofu equipment, you know. It was custom made to make tofu and to make all that.

Right. All the people who buy Japanese food were going into camps.

I remember selling the refrigerator, the radio and our bedding and whatever. We could sell if for $0.25 on the dollar or whatever they offer. My mother would just take it. And I remember my oldest brother had been married for about maybe two, three years, and my parents gave him a bedroom set as a wedding gift. I don't know how much it cost them, but he said it was a beautiful set and they just sold it for maybe $100.

I remember my mother not knowing where we're going, what to pack and things like that. And you had all these hearsay, innuendoes, rumors going around. And so she tried to stock up on food. Rather than have plates, she bought these metal plates, Army, you know, like going camping type of equipment.

Right. Survival gear.

Yeah, right. Rather than have China with us. And I remember she was buying canned foods and packing clothing. And I remember I had a lot of baseball cards.

So what happened to your baseball card?

When my mother said, “You can't bring it, throw it away,” I kind of cried. She said to throw it away. And then the thing that made me really cry I remember was my father burning my judo gi.

He burnt it!

Yeah. Because he was so afraid. The story is anything Japanese he burns. I remember he burned judo gi and anything pertaining to Japan. I cried. Because our judo instructor always said, “One of the things that you respect is your judo gi.”

Do you remember what else was burnt?

Well, he burned a lot of Japanese pictures I remember. 

You mean photographs?

Photographs? You know at that time I was more or less self centered. I wanted to do things for myself. You know, you don't care what your parents are going to burn, I guess. So I wasn't too wound up as they were in their things. I guess when I think about it now we must have had a trying time, trying to destroy a lot of things that they wanted to save.

And they were really afraid.

Right. Because the next day the FBI came. I don't know why. And they questioned my father. The only reason I could think that, you know, he had his own business and he supported the Buddhist church. He was so happy being in business. Of course, you always get hit for your nation, for all types of activities.

And I remember he was a big supporter of the church, and he helped with the gymnasium and things like that. But they just questioned them and didn't do anything. Then you hear stories about other so-called leaders of the community being picked up.

Well, like I said, my parents always felt it was wrong. But what can they do? Right. And when I look through history, I mean, they were always oppressed. They couldn't buy land, they couldn't buy business, they couldn't do this. They couldn't find work. They were told where they should be living.

Okay, So to you going to an assembly center, the Executive Order 9066 meant that your judo gi was burnt against your will and your baseball cards you had to throw away. What else did it mean?

Well, it meant that when they said camp, you know, the first thing the word camp is the picture of Boy Scout camp, summer camp, that type of thing.

Were you in Boy Scouts too?

Yeah, I was in Boy Scouts. So those are the things that kind hit my mind. “Oh, great. You know, we get to do all this type of thing!” Little did I realize what actual camp was. And even to this day, when anybody mentioned camp, you know, meaning summer camp. I'm going camping, you know. Tahoe or Clear Lake or something like that. Or Yosemite to camp. I said, “Oh, no, you know, not camp.” It hits me right away. Instead of this Boy Scout camp or summer camp it's a concentration camp that comes into my mind right away.

So you're innocent 12 year old mind was picturing a fun place. And the shock of what camp really was is still with you.

But you even know what it really was. You know, I get criticized for saying this, but it's my story. And you know, what would a 12 year old kid do in camp? And I'm quite sure my parents didn't want to have the negative side of that. They just want us to enjoy ourselves and do the best under the circumstances.

And that's what we did. And we organized a game.

So you did enjoy camp?

Oh, yeah. I mean that's why I go there, you know, on these pilgrimage to explain to them that my story was this. And I know that there's the other side of the story and I like to listen to all of it. Even though I was a teenager, I think I know a lot about what happened at camp than the average person.

Tell me about your games and sports and how you celebrated holidays.

Well, I don't know too much about the holidays because they probably had Thanksgiving, Christmas, they had turkey. That's about it. And I remember my parents trying to do something special for New Year's. I don't recall too much. 

Did you have Mochi?

Yes, I remember some of the families trying to make Mochi. I think my father attempted to make mochi as certain families would get together and combined to make Mochi.

Okay. Do you remember what month you went to the assembly center?

Yeah, I went there in May. Around the 15th of May, if I recall.

So you had to stop school, and what if your school was 75% Japanese-American? I mean, a huge chunk of school just disappeared. And did most of your friends go to the same assembly center?

Yes.

Over the whole neighborhood?

Yeah, all the neighborhoods. And there were probably more families that joined relatives to come to Sacramento or at that time, there are certain areas where you're allowed to come in. And they were thinking that if they move now, they won't get evacuated into camps.

So back to Pearl Harbor Day. I know that the banks were supposed to freeze accounts of Japanese nationals. Did that happen? 

Oh, yes. Yeah and it wasn't until after the war that I think my father recovered something like I forgot $0.25 on the dollar or what the rate was before the war.

You mean he didn't get interest, or do you mean that?

No, he didn't get interest. I can't authenticate this. They got the original money back from 1941. Oh, for 40 or whatever the rate was at that time. So my father made a joke. “I can't even use the money to go to Japan. It won't even pay the boat fare.” That type of thing.

When was he able to get the money again?

Geez. I would say around 1947, 48, probably just after I, uh, graduated from high school.

Okay. So you were in Walegra for part of April and May? Yeah. And then you went to Tule Lake. Do you remember the trip out to Tule Lake?

We were on the train. It was a long train ride, and they had us - we couldn't open up the windows. They had armed guards and things like that. And we went through the town of Marysville.

Marysville?

Yeah. And I remember, uh, my mother said she knows a lot of Hiroshima people in Marysville, so just wondering if there'll be people at the station.

And sure enough there were Japanese people at the station trying to find out if this is the right train or who's on that train type of thing. And my mother's distance relative was there at the station. So she said to her, “Even though they said you could only pack up what you can carry, bring everything that you have and have the government will ship it, take it with you. They're not going to throw it out, so bring everything you can.”

Did your parents, did you family pack anything to have stored anywhere.

I'm not too sure. I think my parents had a butsudan, I don't know whatever became of that, I believe that they stored that at the Buddhist church because they had the gymnasium. I understand during the war there was a lot of vandalism and breakage and things like that.

It's hard to claim that was mine. I Don't think they marked the goods or the equipment as such. They just more or less stored it. I'm not too sure. I don't want to say anything bad about the Buddhist church or how it was organized. Everybody was in a panic.

And I'm sure everybody was in that huge rush and nobody could take responsibility for anybody else. So you're riding the train to Tule Lake.

Yeah, it was actually my first long train ride and it was kind of boring and hot. I remember it was in May. And then they said they finally landed in Tule Lake, and I said, “What?” You know, I was picturing something like Lake Tahoe, with trees on the lake, you know.

Have you been to Lake Tahoe?

No, I only saw pictures of it. But, you know, I don't know why my concept of Tule Lake was, Oh, there's a lake there and trees here. And probably the lodges for us to. And when I see this army camp, where are the trees, you know, and fences, guard houses, guard towers and soldiers all over I said holy mackerel.

Did it scare you or-

Yeah in a way, it scared me. I said, you know, they could kill us and nobody would know. You know, especially when I saw the soldiers with guns and rifles and it seemed like, wow, we're like prisoners here.

It only dawned on you after you saw them.

Well, you hate to think about things like that. I guess that's what a kid at 12 years old sees.

And I'm sure your parents were trying to protect you, shield you from the reality as much as possible.

So it was a kind of a big disappointment, you know, And no sidewalks, it's all dirt.

Well, can you back up? You were in the train and it stops. The regulations that you were talking about, would they talk to you after you disembarked? And on the platform? Was there a platform? Was there a train station?

There wasn't a train station. And I remember the tracks, you know, in front of the camp. And we disembarked there.

And you just got on to the bare ground. 

And then later on they put us into the caravan truck, you know, with a view of the army truck with the canvas.

How did that feel? How does that feel to ride right in that US Army truck? I mean, were you excited?

You're always excited. You get to ride on the truck. Is that right? Well, it's kind of awkward. I felt sorry for my parents because they weren't as agile and we had to help them get onto the truck, whereas I could just jump right in.

And I don't know what kind of shoes your parents were wearing, but.

You know, we were probably wearing suits.

You dressed up for the occasion?

You know, I thought being Japanese, anywhere we go, strange places we just didn't want people to say look at those dirty Japs.

So here you are, the family, the Yamasaki family. Your parents are wearing nice clothes. All seven boys are wearing suits with leather shoes and neckties. And you're having to board a U.S. Army truck. Was it clean inside?

It was dusty.

Yeah. I mean, it's just a Jeep truck with canvas on top, and the whole thing seems pretty incongruous.

Yeah, right.

And you had to help your parents and. And what were the regulations again?

Well, they didn’t tell us, per se. So more or less. I remember boarding the truck and dropped off at the certain block. Nisei volunteers who were there, you know, helping out. And he said, well, this is this and this is the campsite. And I think he's the one that said the guards are all along here. So, you know, just not to go close to the fence and things like that. And then my parents, the first thing my mother said, “Don't go there.” There was a barbed wire fence and they had a kind another type of fence, a warning fence type of thing. Painted yellow. And that was to indicate don't go beyond that. So it's kind of a warning.

The inner fence. 

Yeah. 

Okay. And then the second one was?

The barbed wire fence.

And we were thrown into this truck and they said that you're assigned to 2415 A and B.

ok from the train. You went straight on to a truck.

And apparently all of it was pretty well organized, the Yamasaki family you were assigned to barrack block 24 barrack 15 A and B. And so the truck took us there and we opened the door. We saw the army cots, mattress and blankets in the corner, and we saw a big potbelly stove and a 60W light bulb and said, Well, this is our home.

So you're carrying all that you can carry.

I remember my brothers and my dad said, “What about our baggage?” He said, Oh, they're being picked up and they'll be delivered at the corner of the block. And I remember a couple of hours later, you know, all the baggage was marked like, you know, when you travel, they have these tags. “Yamasaki” with our serial number on the family number, and they just dumped it on the corner of the block. And we went over there and looked at our tag and it was the honor system.

And they said, well, where are the restrooms? All latrines are in the middle of the block in the washrooms here. And I said, well, this is a lot better than Walerga is what I mentioned. And the first thing I wanted to do was take a drink of water. And I said, “Wow, this water tastes, you know, awful.” And one of the guys said, “Yeah, you know, they just opened up the pipe.’” And he said something like, “Don't drink the water. Don't drink too much water. You’ll get diarrhea.” There's too much mineral in this thing. And I remember him saying that. And later on as everybody settled in the block, the latrines were filled because I guess people drank the water.

Now about the tags. There are photographs of people with tags on their bodies, on their clothes. Did you have to wear tags on the way to the assembly center?

At Tule Lake to be identified, Marked.

There are all these well-dressed people with their hats and their suits and leather shoes and you all have tags on them and you go from one dirty train to a dirty truck and you're walking through mud or dust or whatever.

It's kind of ironic because I just see, um, in general, like I said, my mother wanted us to be presentable. Give that good image.

Did the soldiers treat you with respect?

You know, I was kind of afraid of the soldiers, so I didn't talk to any of the soldiers because that's another thing. My mother said. “Don't give them an excuse to do anything.” Just leave them.

Right. And do you remember what was one of the first things you did for yourself or your family?

Yeah, I went straight to the, uh latrine and try to get a drink, some water and didn't have any cups or anything. I go and cup my hand like this. And I remember some guy. They said, “Hey, don't drink too much water you’re going to get diarrhea.” And I said, Yeah, and I said this taste icky, you know, the pipes and the water I guess didn’t filter as much I guess, and tasted funny, you know, like that. And so I remember later on we used to welcome the uh, guys from uh, who were coming in and I knew that some of the families would have canteens and uh, and I said, Can I have some water? They’d say why and I’d say I want to drink some Sacramento water.

And, um, so how is the food compared to the assembly center?

Well. Oh, it was, I would say, a lot better from the assembly center because the assembly center you had only, uh, I think, there were only five mess halls and they were going.

For 5000 people.

You know. Yeah. It was a continuous thing. You have to wait in line. Is a big joke. No, you wait in line for breakfast and then after you finish breakfast, then you got to wait in line for lunch and you take a few breaks or go to the bathroom or whatever, and then you got to line up for dinner type of thing.

At the assembly center.

So in the Tule Lake it was regulated between blocks and so forth. A lot. And things were different. And depending on who the cooks were.

Yes.

You had wonderful meals. But basically, according to the records, the the government had an allocation of something like $0.35 per person. So what can you eat for $0.35. So basically the same old thing that they used to serve. I remember a lot of, uh, wieners and a lot of instant eggs and milk.

Everything Instant. Like the instant milk was a big cube of chalk, you know, the milk and the use of that and pure water. And you couldn't dissolve it as it was because you drink milk and your drinking particles all the time. I love milk, you know, but that stuff stopped me from drinking milk. And eggs, you know, eggs they're supposed to be yellow, but most of the time it was green.

Were you ever served spoiled food?

No, I don't think so.

See some cooks are really dedicated and others are just army cooks, you know, they were just assigned as cooks. Ah yeah. Yeah put everything in the pot and mix it up and when you think about it it's difficult to cook for 400 people.

Oh yes. Yeah.

And give it a taste, you see, because everyone has their own taste, one would say it's bland, somebody else would say not enough sugar, you know that type of thing.

Um, so you went there in May, the school started in the fall?

Yes, school started in around September. I don't remember the exact date. So they converted one of the blocks into a high school.

A whole block. Okay.

And they converted that into a temporary high school till they built a high school later on about a year later.

So there was one high school in the whole camp.

Yeah.

So if you lived at one edge, the far edge.

You have to walk all the way home, rain or shine. No bus? No. We walked in a sea of mud.

Did you like school?

Yeah, I enjoyed school.

So you have a lot of clear memories and pictures in your mind. From camp and especially school.

Yeah. And like I said, we would start talking and reminiscing about our camp last year and I said, Oh, do you remember this? Do you remember this? And people said, No, I don’t remember. I even talked to my brothers. They don't even recall what we did.

So what are the categories of things you remember from camp holidays? You said you didn't remember too much.

You know, because I guess to me, holidays were just ordinary, not a special thing for me. It was just another day. I remember, you know, like playing ball, leading people, going to school.

Playing ball means baseball or.

Played all sports. Baseball, basketball, volleyball, you name it, We played it.

Do you remember if you did, you purchased these or the community purchased?

I remember as a team, uh, we were able to purchase I remember this guy, Kale Komoto from San Jose. He sponsored our little league team. I remember he got a group of kids together, and he bought a lot of baseball equipment for us.

With his own money.

And the recreation department, whenever we had the games, they would give us two softball, two bats. He says, “This is it. And once you use it, give it back to us,” type of thing. So, you know, that's what we did.

So this was a recreation.

And they organized various leagues. You know, they had the younger kids, they had the Girls League Boys league. They even had what they called an old mans league, you know.

Did you go to Japanese school?

Not the first term, but after segregation they had the Japanese school and I went to Japanese school. I went in the morning and went to public school in the afternoon.

One story I heard, not that this has be videotaped, is these guys finding cranes, the big white cranes, and they would spread the arms of the or the wings of the cranes and painted big red circles underneath.

Oh yeah they had seagulls. I remember when we were kids, you know, they would come looking for food. And the mess halls would throw bread or leftovers. And I remember, uh, a bunch of us got together and we found this box a wooden crate. And we formed a piece of rope, a long rope. And we put a stick, and then we put some bread underneath the box. So when the seagull came to eat the bread, we pulled the rope and the box would fall on the seagull. And that's how we caught the seagull.

And what did you do after that?

And then one of the guys managed to get some red paint and painted the wings of a seagull. And I remember, one of the kids getting bitten by the seagull. And I said, “Did it hurt?” He grabbed me. “That’s what it feels like, you know?”

So you were one of those.

It was a group of us that did that.

Yeah. And the story I heard was they did that to the annoyance of the guards.

Well, then we let them loose, So you can see, there were happy memories.

Did you date a lot of girls?

You know, I didn’t date a lot of girls, but generally, I went to the dances and intermingled with others. My mission in camp was to find someone in each block, get to know somebody from each block.

Really? You had that mission? Yeah.

I wanted to meet somebody from each block. But I never got to accomplish that.

And you did tell me you mentioned before segregation. Do you remember what it was like then? You probably weren't old enough to know.

No I remember. And this question came up in 27 and 28. And there are a lot of pros, cons, discussions, innuendoes and accusations. And of course, you hear of families where they had a lot of dissensions and arguments, probably seen that “Hey I'm an American and this is my country I'm going to fight for. I'm going to volunteer.” You know, I'm quite sure that my brothers felt the same way. But because of the parents strong feeling, you know, let's keep the family together.

They put us here, the government put us here. So the only way to stick together is to answer no, no. I think being the obedient sons. Rather than to fight with the family, especially with parents, you do whatever they tell us to do.

So in your family you were able to decide on everybody answering it the same way. Not that everybody had to sign it.

Well see, I was under age. You had to be 18 and over to signed that. So fortunately I didn't have to make any decisions. But I remember my mom and dad insisting on my older brothers who are 18 and over, which were three of them, sign, no, no, because otherwise you're going to get drafted in the Army and you're going to separate the family and this and that. You don't know what the fear of the unknown is.

So if you answered no, no, and you were of draftable age, what happened?

Well, you were considered disloyal. Any no or negative vote in those two questions, the government considered you a disloyal. And so that's where the segregation came in, so they separated all the ones who said no, no. Apparently Tule Lake had the most no nos, so they brought all the no nos from the other camps to Tule Lake. And the ones who answered yes in Tule Lake were shipped to the various other camps.

All right, So in Tule Lake, the stockades were built and some people were beaten up and there was even a killing. Do you recall that one?

Yeah. In fact, this killing was Mr. Hitomi, he's from Sacramento. I knew the oldest son very well. He's about a year and a half older than I am, but, the night that he was killed – see we lived right by the firebreaks where they have this outdoor stage with the center of the camp where they have entertainment. We didn't have a gymnasium there, so everything was on the outdoor stage, and so we were situated from our barrack. You could just sit down and look at the stage so we didn't have to walk, you know? And my father made benches.

Right in front of your barrack.

Barrack. Yeah. Uh huh. And so the friends from Sacramento would sit down and enjoy the entertainment. And Mr. Hitomi, was one of them that sat down that evening and looked at the, you know, the stage at that time. And then he went home. And when he went home, somebody was waiting for him and stuff and killed him.

There was a man who was shot.

Oh yeah there was a man, Okamoto. His name was Okamoto. He lived in block 30. He was a truck driver.

Right.

And he was released as part of the farmworkers out in the farmlands, beyond the camp. And the story I heard was he was coming back from unloading the people from the farm. And reported back to the maintenance yard and the guards says where is your pass, and he said I never had one, you know, because the guards knew who he was. But this time they stopped. And they said, “Where is your pass?” And he said never had one. What do you mean? You got to have a pass to come in and Okamoto said, “Hey, this is my home. I live in the camp, look at me.” And soldier says, “Don't get smart with me,” you know, that type of thing. And they start arguing. And so he told them to get off the truck. And soon as he got off the truck, the soldiers shot him. That’s the story I heard.

I'm sure you felt for the families.

I felt for the family. And what can you do. But there were leaders of the community that protested. But, uh, you know, say that, well, it's a military thing and you look into it.

Um, how about the incidences around the stockade and these, you know, any of the people who were beaten or, or whose families were sent…

Not really. You know, I went to several of the pilgrimages and I met people who were in the stockade.

Oh.

And I said, “Were you a rabble rouser?” You know, I'm a Kibei. I knew the dual language and they asked me to represent the community, I guess. And then the soldiers figured that since you were representing, you must be one of the leaders. And rather than to ask them a question, they just put them to a stockade. Guilty by association.

Is there something you like to say about camp and yourself to the audience, as it were, the young generation?

You know, I was brought up in this family oriented type of thing, and I really believe in the family, as being together and being happy. There's a pride that we all had, and I'm in reading the individual stories of the people from the 442nd. They weren't, you know, they were just the soldiers that served in the war. And if there's one idea that was very common was “pride,” don't disgrace the family.

And if you have that, I think the person would have something to guide them, your own pride and build this with the family. And I think that was the emphasis is that I see among the soldiers that carried on and like anything else, I like to see something like that be carried on throughout the family in the Nikkei population. There's some strong hope that they could carry on. Whatever you do, it's a reflection on the family. 

Interview conducted by Grace Megumi Fleming. JAMsj thanks Grace for allowing the museum to archive and share these oral histories