Hiroshi Leo Saito

Leo Saito was a dentist deployed with the 100th/442nd during the war. With two dentists to care of 1,000 men in the service, Leo witnessed multiple bouts of combat and tragedies of war, such as the loss of his best friend and the remnants of the Dachau death camps. In this interview, Leo is the primary subject, while his wife, Margaret, chimes in occasionally. Together, their position on the redress and reparations ranges from neutral to highly critical of what they considered to be “too little, too late.” Leo passed away in 2015 at the age of 99. 

Let's start with the basics. When and where were you born?

Leo Saito: San Francisco. September 23rd, 1915. First day of autumn.

Do you know where your parents are from?

Leo Saito: Yes, My mother is from Shizuoka, a town called Numaza and my father is from Ibaragi.

Do you know any stories about how they first came to the United States?

Leo Saito: Well, my father came first. About early 1900s. And then he went back and got my mother and brought her back.

So she wasn't the typical picture bride. She knew him before.

Leo Saito: That's right. In Japan.

What kind of work did your father do?

Leo Saito: He was a shoemaker.

I see, he worked with leather. Wasn't working with leather looked down upon in Japan? It's for the eta or, you know, the lowest caste. I heard that a lot of people threw away those prejudices when they came to this country.

Margaret Saito: Yeah, I think that's right.

Leo Saito: I think most Niseis don't know about eta. The thing was: my father learned the trade in the United States.

Margaret Saito: There were a lot of Japanese shoemakers, or shoe repair people. Because you can do it on your own. You don't have to work for somebody.

And what did your mother do?

Leo Saito: My father had the shoe repair, and my mother had a cleaning shop right next door.

And where was this?

Leo Saito: My understanding is that they lived in Vallejo when they first came over. He had friends over there. He used to smoke and drink. There weren't many social outlets for Japanese at that time. But my mother said, you know, this life is no good.

So your mother had a lot of influence on family matters like where to live.

Leo Saito: I think so. She's strong willed, I guess. She's not only strong willed, she's pretty stubborn.

Leo, your story is quite different from Margaret's, because there's a significant age-gap. Can you tell me about your experience in the war?

Leo Saito: Well, I graduated high school in ‘33 and I went seven years in school at Berkeley. And I got out just before June, July of ‘41 before Pearl Harbor.

Did you think that you would be able to become a dentist after graduating? Were there other dentists of Japanese background?

Leo Saito:Yeah, they were just beginning to become, you know, accepted, I guess.

I see.

Leo Saito: And I think there was a need for it, because at that time if you wanted to go get some glasses or get your teeth fixed, you would have to go to some non-Japanese.

So you were saying that you graduated July of '41, just months before Pearl Harbor.

Leo Saito: Six months before, in December, I was going to get drafted, but they gave me a deferment so I could graduate with the class. They gave me an extension to graduate with the class in June or July. And a month later I was in the Army. I faced my basic training in Camp Grant, Illinois, and then I was assigned to a dental lab. And I was there for quite a while, at least six months or maybe a year. And the colonel who oversaw the hospital, he told me, how come you're not a practicing dentist? I said, well, I applied and I've been waiting ever since. You know, I think they conveniently must have lost it or something.

So I was down there in the general hospital when Pearl Harbor occurred. Through this Colonel's efforts, I reapplied. And then that's when I got the commission. The 442nd was preparing to go overseas. They went overseas with two dentists. Maybe a thousand men.

But a lot of these men that you treated never went home.

Leo Saito: From Europe. That's correct. Including my best friend.

Oh, really?

Leo Saito: Yeah, he died in Europe. We grew up together in Oakland. I came back, and he didn't.

What was it like serving in Germany?

Leo Saito: We went over and we were in the tail end of combat. We got over there in January or February.

So were you in combat?

Leo Saito: Well, yeah, the last month and mostly in the south of Germany, which is Bavaria. Beautiful. You know, rolling hills and the mountains. That's where Hitler lived.

You were in the armored division, so you must have been moving quickly. So did you see bombed out buildings and devastation?

Leo Saito: Oh, yeah, we were there at Dachau and Auschwitz, where they had the ovens. We saw the corpses.

Well, my husband's grandfather was in the second. And he took photographs of the corpses, you know, piled high.

Leo Saito: Yeah. On black carts.

So you saw those too. What was your job in those places?

Leo Saito: Well I was the medic, so I was supposed to be taking care of wounds. But we were going so fast and it's the tail end of the war. Everybody was throwing in the towel. We saw lines and lines of soldiers with their hands up. They're all giving up.

Well, how did it seem to you that, you know, your family's behind barbed wire back in States?

Leo Saito: In a way, and I don't know if this is right, but I felt grateful. Because everybody in this camp was protected. If there was some nut trying to get in, they had guards. When you were a parent of some personnel, Navy or Army or something, who got killed by the Japanese or something like that, you would be angry, you know. I'd be very angry, you know, that you lost your only son. They got mad at me, and I was personnel myself. So, I felt, well, it's good that they were protected.

Well the more I interview people, the more I realize how dangerous it was even before Pearl Harbor.

Oh, yeah. But that was my attitude then. At church, we're having a group talk one time and my friend George says, camp was pretty good because every night you go to a dance and it's those good old times I miss. But that's for the kids, look at the parents, you know, during their peak earning years, with everything invested, and everything taken. And you're put behind bars, not because of anything you did, just because you've got slant eyes and black hair. I said to him, that's very demeaning.

Your parents must have lost their business, right?

Leo Saito: Right, they take everything away. And if there's no buyers, you just leave it and go. You know, you lose your whole life savings. I think there was some suicide because, you know, it was ignored. You work all your life and then you get to a point where you're just beginning to make it. Then they take everything away. I think that's terrible, you know, and I told George don't say that because you want to give somebody the wrong impression. I said, well, maybe for you. But for some people it was terrible.

How did your parents take it?

Leo Saito: Shigata ga nai. You know, they're very good about that. Can't help it, you know. That's just the way it is.

Let's talk about those resettlement years.

Leo Saito: Well, my father was just about retirement age. I think when he came back, he started working in a mess hall, doing menial work.

Like prepping vegetables or?

Leo Saito: Cleaning up, all this kind of stuff, you know. But my mother had leased her cleaners. And our house is a three-story Victorian. We leased that out too. But when they came back, the whole place was a mess. And I remember when we took back the cleaners from this person. She had run the debt up. So my mother had to pay off all the debts.

Tell me, after all the strife your parents faced, did you think redress would happen?

Margaret Saito: I didn't know. Well, the way that the tide was going, I thought it would. I thought that there were enough people to stand up and say their piece. We didn't go to the hearings or anything.

Leo Saito: There were form letters we filled in, but I give the credit to the Sanseis.

Well it took so much energy. I know there were Nieses that took multiple trips to Washington DC, but I guess most the lawyers and so forth were Sanseis. Did you think it would happen, Leo?

Leo Saito: At first, I didn't think so. And the second thing I thought was, you know, $20,000 is nothing when you really think about it. At one time I was thinking about refusing it. But it's better than nothing. I was drafted, so I was never there. But they gave it to me anyway. I was in the service and then I heard that my family was going to have to, you know, be evacuated.

So I asked for leave, so I could come back and help. They wouldn't let me go to California. They wouldn't let me. An American soldier can't enter California because – that’s discrimination. That's why I was entitled.

Did you have to plead that case?

Margaret Saito: He wasn't even going to do that. He didn't feel like applying. He wasn't in camp. Then we told our lawyer and he said, “Oh no. You write down exactly what happened and everything and we'll submit it.” And he got it. But my attitude was: too late. Our parents are gone, and they're the ones that really suffered. The ones that lost everything.

What about the letter from the President?

Margaret Saito: I said, this is a piece of paper, it doesn't mean anything.

Nothing at all?

Margaret Saito: I mean it doesn't help or anything.

Leo Saito: It's actually just a token.

One man I interviewed said, look, it's a penalty, like a speeding ticket. In the United States we look at money lost and learn a lesson. Well, we're penalizing the U.S. government for a mistake or for engaging in illegal activities or unconstitutional activities.

Leo Saito: Yeah, but how can you put a price on freedom?

So it's a symbolic thing.

Leo Saito: But I still think it's a token. You know, to just keep everyone quiet. You know, it is nothing. When a person is deprived of this freedom, you know, for no reason at all, $20,000 is nothing. You can't put a price on that.

What do you think should have happened?

Leo Saito: I really don't know. I guess the government did the best it could to make amends. Now African Americans are trying to get redress for slavery. But so many who deserve it are already gone. Just like our parents, most of them are gone.

Making amends is a very difficult process, isn't it? I mean, in the 12-step program, they talk about making amends, but, you know, how do you undo an injustice that's already been done?

Margaret Saito: That's right. But I think the Sanseis did a tremendous job. And that aspect is just unbelievable. Bringing it out in the open more when the government doesn't want to admit it, because you know, it's against the constitution. Given what's happening now and the fact that thousands of people of Muslim or Arab background have been apprehended. Well see the problem is there are too few people who know what's going on. It's just like being Japanese, with your slant eyes. It's so much easier to pick out all these people with their turbans and their headscarves. After 9/11, I thought, here we go again.

Do you think our government is capable of doing something like that again?

Margaret Saito: I've become so cynical. I think in my heart that it's quite possible. I think there will be more protest, but I think it's possible.

Well, Leo, you were talking about not taking things for granted. We take a lot for granted. Our government has listened to the World War II experiences, but what do you think?

Leo Saito: If it happened once it could happen again.

How should the new generation approach this. Do you have a word of wisdom for the young?

Leo Saito: Well, learn from us, and from our mistakes. We were brought up by don't rock the boat, you know, talk about bending with the wind. Go along with the government. Don't raise a fuss. We're in America, do like the Americans. But what is an American? We were brought up to reject our heritage, and now it's the Sanseis who are correcting that. They're seeking their identity, you know, and their heritage. I think that they're carrying the torch.

Margaret Saito: Usually when I give talks at schools, and especially at high schools, I say watch. Question. Don't take things for granted. That's what I do. I've at least gotten to that point where I'm more like the kids. I'm grateful for that.

Interview conducted by Grace Megumi Fleming. JAMsj thanks Grace for allowing the museum to archive and share these oral histories