Barbara Muramoto

Barbara Muramoto, a lifelong koto player and renowned teacher whose incarceration story was made more dramatic with her family’s decision to return to Japan at the end of the war. With her parents deciding to answer no/no on the so-called “Loyalty Questionnaire,”, incensed at the treatment towards Japanese Americans, her father believed it was the best decision to take them back to Japan. After leaving from Tule Lake, Barbara recalls that the two week boat trip across the sea was spent primarily with her father, one on one, as her mother and sister were sick from the journey. She remembers it was the best time of her life, but as soon as they disembarked in Japan, she recalled her father telling the family immediately: “I made a mistake.” 

According to her obituary, Barbara received the honorary degree of Tobiume No Tsukasa Dai Shihan, at the time the only Koto master outside of Japan to hold such an honor. Barbara passed away in 2022. 

We are with Barbara Muramoto at her beautiful home in San Lorenzo. And it's December 13th. Can we start with where you were born and when you were born?

Born in Stanford Hospital, Palo Alto. August 3rd, ‘32.

All right, Now, you were born in Stanford. And what did your parents do at that time?

He was a gardener.

Gardener? And how many children in the family?

My sister and I. Just the two of us.

Do you remember the day Pearl Harbor was bombed?

Yes, I do. My father loved to go fishing at Half Moon Bay. We were living in San Mateo at that time, and he went fishing around 7:00 in the morning, his usual routine, only to be turned back saying, “We don't let Japs fish.” That one incident, you know, it was a big turn off

He went at 7:00 in the morning. So 2 hours earlier, the bombing had already.

Already. We would get that kind of reaction…I remember the reaction was so fast.

Yeah, and this was his routine, Sunday mornings right?

We would all follow him, you know? Just couldn't do it that day.

So you were all in the car together? So the family of four had gone to the..

I think it was just my father and I, and my mom and sister- My sister was still little, so just stayed home.

So, do you remember anything else around that? Did you listen to the radio at home or did you see your parents talking or?

I remember them talking, discussing the matter. Being young and it just didn't sink in what was going on. It was just, “Oh.”

Well, besides being turned back, did you notice anything else with your neighbors or at school? People treating you differently?

The area that we lived in was predominantly Japanese so there was no reaction then. School was okay. But coming home from school, coming from the other side were some high school kids that surrounded me once, says, “Oh, here comes the Jap kid” was kind of frightening, but that was it. They didn't do anything but–

Right. You're only nine years old and these are high school students, right? Well, I'm glad they didn't touch a nine year old girl.

And then there was that one incident at Safeway involving the students. You know, in those days you had to buy meat through a counter. And this one lady takes a look at mom and says, “I'm not going to buy anything where a Jap buys groceries.”

She told you this or you were there?

I was there. Mom turned the other way, you know, nothing happened, but you get those comments here and there.

But you remember that clearly.

I still remember where the store was too. I go back there and say, “There's that store there.” It's not Safeway anymore.

What was the atmosphere like in your family between the day Pearl Harbor was bombed and when you were evacuated?

I remember totally, more fear than anything else. We had to bring our shades down at night. And I didn't realize what it was, but there was a fire engine in front of our house once. And they said our front lawn was on fire or something. I don't know how it got that way, but then you could put two and two together.

Was there anything else that frightened you? I mean, that's really scary to hear that your home was on fire.

Well, like I said, it was predominantly Japanese, so you don't expect anything like that. But I guess there were some people that were very upset to do something like that to certain houses.

Do you remember the day you evacuated?

Yeah, very well. Because in all that rush my sister got very ill with asthma. From the dust, the doctor said.

The dust of?

Cleaning up in a hurry. In fact, at the end, we were sleeping on mattresses on the floor. And that's when the doctor came and looked at her, and he said to put her in the hospital.

Oh my gosh.

My mom says no, if they get separated they don't know what's going to happen. I don't remember going down in a bus or anything. We were sent in there separately. My sisters were in the hospital area right away. And then she started saying, “I want to go home.”

I remember getting up in the morning, they gave you a little army cot. I never slept on an army cot. I woke up on the floor, in the straw.

So you weren't allergic at all?

Fortunately, I wasn't. My sister was. In fact, that affected her until she grew up. When we went to Japan, she couldn't participate in the undokai because she would end up wheezing like crazy at night. I tell her about these things. She goes, “Did I?” She doesn't remember a thing about it.

It must have been hard for her and scary because to not be able to breathe is life threatening. So you were in the horse stall. Do you remember the unit number?

13 I think it was, I don't know the room number. I remember Topaz and Tule Lake but I don’t remember. 

Getting up on the floor was one thing. I kind of enjoyed it to tell you the truth, because my friends are right next door, you know, my school mates. Where I had to go walk quite a bit to see them before in San Mateo, now we were next door to each other. I enjoyed the rec rooms and a lot of reading.

What kind of things in the rec room did you do that you liked?

There were a lot of crafts going on, yeah.

This is Tanforan?

Tanforan Yeah. And I don’t remember going to school there, but I understand there was a school there. Another thing I think is, I was so much younger too. As I got older I remember a little bit more like Topaz and Tulelake.

Well, you were in fourth grade?

Yeah.

So what did you and your friends do?

I don't remember that either. It's just that we were so close to each other now and that was a nice part of it.

Was there a favorite game?

I think there was but I don't remember what it was. We weren’t the active type of kids but I remember going to the mess hall together. And we continued that until Tule Lake. Kids were the first ones to go to the mess halls.

Did you miss your sister?

Not really. Because you know we were six years apart. Not until we got older we didn't get that close because of the age difference.

That's a huge difference. Yeah.

She doesn’t remember camp at all. I remember she was in school. I guess it would be daycare.

You liked being at Tanforan because of the friends and the recreation and the library. 

And I think it's also close to home, you know. San Mateo.

You didn't have to travel far. Well, how long were you there? Do you know from which month that is?

About a half year isn’t it? It wasn’t too long, I remember that.

Yeah, depending on if you were one of the first groups to be put in assemblies and or last groups and when you got shipped out.

Time wise, I don't recall. I do recall a train ride to Topaz and Tulelake. But you couldn't open the shades. I was trying to lie down in one of the seats there and noticed one of these guards gave me a wink. He said something real cute to me, he said, “Sweet dreams.”

So there was enough space for you to lie down?

No, it was all chairs. But you know, being little, I guess my parents would let me try to lie down.

Did you feel that these guards were friendly or mean, or they were just there? I mean, were you afraid of them or?

No, they didn't scare me one bit. I think you know, they're doing their duty that’s all.

Most of them, maybe some of them were, in fact, like in Tule Lake when one of the riots happened and they came to your barracks, they looked through everything you did, and tore the bed apart. They took everything apart, the bed. But one day I put it back together and my mom complimented, “How do you do that? It looks so neat.” I showed her how to do it. And he said, “You could bounce a penny on it.” And he showed her, “This is how you do it.” And even today, that's how I make the bed.

The way that GI showed you. Were the sheets really tight and the blanket tucked in?

Yeah, but he, he was nice enough to put it back.

Not leave it all messy. Well, what do you remember about Topaz?

Well, that's where I started my music. 

Did you do other music besides koto?

No, no, when my mom said, “You’re learning koto,” I said, “What is that?” Well, I was totally American at that time. Of course, we spoke Japanese because my dad was Kibei. We were a mixed language family. 

So where did the Koto come from that you used?

I think at that time we had to leave right after because I didn't have a koto in Topaz. And I don't remember practicing in Topaz, at home. Everything was by memory. So even if I wanted to practice, and being a beginner, there's only a few lines that I could practice every day.

If you're learning by memory, it's every day. And my first teacher, after the war she came back to San Francisco. She was teaching at 100 years old. Just passed away about, I would say about 15 years ago.

That was her life. So did she bring the Koto with her to camp?

She probably did, yeah, somehow she must have.

So you probably only just started at Topaz, when you start to go to Tule Lake. Do you know anything about how your parents did the loyalty questionnaire 

That I know. I remember them sitting up all night. They didn't sleep that night. And they both did no, no. And, you know, my father was a member of the Hoshidan. They say there are radicals, but in my father's case, he was fed up with the way that they were being treated.So he felt if he went back to Japan – because he grew up in a very quiet town in Japan, he felt Japan would be much better. He found that he was wrong when he went back.

Were your parents talking all night long? About the pros and cons?

You know, it's all one room, you know what’s going on.

In Topaz, what was it like to be in the group that was being shipped to Tulelake? What did it feel like?

I don't remember that at all. I guess I was too young or too dense to even think about it.

Maybe it felt like just another move. You've moved so many times.

That was my reaction. Because every time you get off the train, you know, it's a three day ride. It was a three day ride and you get off, you sit down there and look at the ground, you feel like you’re moving. And I experienced that with those, both of them going to Topaz and going to Tulelake.

So you had friends in Tanforan that went to Topaz with you?

Yeah, but this time we were separated. So that's where we lost touch.

And then when you went, did you make new friends at Topaz? And then you had to say goodbye to some of those friends?

Oh yeah. Most of them.

Okay, so let's go to Tule Lake. It's a three day ride, and you remember that ride?

Yeah. It gets boring, three solid days.

So do you remember your first impression of Tulelake?

It was more dismal knowing the reason you were sent there.

Oh, okay. You were old enough to know that you were labeled. Well visually, did it look different to you from Topaz?

No, camp situations are the same, except you notice the mountains are a little different. You know, Castle Rock and Abalone Mountain on the other side, which Topaz is a desert. I do remember in Topaz you have these little tornadoes. Tiny ones. And we’d say, “Oh! There’s one coming!” We’d run into our barrack, close the door. Doesn't mean anything really.

Like a dust devil.

Because once that thing goes through, you know, we have these army blankets on our cots. You put your hands there, you get a perfect hand print. And that means, you know, the walls are paper thin. So it didn't stop it from coming in.

That's a great visual image of the handprint. You know, if I'm talking to children, that is great.

That's the first thing we would do. Oh my gosh, that was frequent those little dust storms

So Tulelake, you felt this more because you knew the reason?

Yeah.

Once you were there, though, many of the people there were the no/no people. And then they were the people who were there because that's where they went first. Did you feel any differences between the two of you?

No, I think we were put in the section with nothing but the no/nos. That ward seven area was all–

All no/nos? How about Koto lessons? 

She was way on the other side, which was close to the Alaska section. That's why I was asking Jimi Yaimaichi, you know, how far was it, and when he pointed it out, I go, “You mean I was walking that much all the time?” Being young, it never dawned on me it was that far. Of course, we had the barracks in between, so it's not like walking what you see right now. Because it was actually one side of the camp to the other side.

My section was ward seven which is most of them because that's where our Japanese school started.

Oh okay. The strict one. So the Koto teacher near Alaska, was she a no/no?

Yeah, she went back with me. My uncle was a no/no too, when he happened to be on the other side, and his sister happened to live right next door to the Koto sensei. And that's where I got my first introduction to more updated Koto music, not just the classics.

Okay. Now, did you have a Koto in your barrack?

Yeah. This is where I can't tell where my father found one.

How was it for your family to have your father taken away?

I guess that's where my youth comes in but I remember my mom never had a smile on her face after that. Quite worried all the time.

But she didn't talk to you about it? Tell me about the letters again. It wasn't on the video, I think you told me.

They would come censored with slits all over the place. It was basically hollow.

So he wrote in Japanese? So there was somebody working for the Federal government who could read Japanese?

Yeah.

And your mother wrote to him in English?

English, right.  Obviously it's a very mixed up family.

Well it must have been hard, I mean to have censor letters is hard, but to have it in the two different languages, you can only write about the simplest things.

Yeah. And that's why we didn't get too many letters. I figure those letters were what he wanted to do to let my mom know, you know, if we're going to Japan. And that's why those places were cut out. Because I remember I only got about two letters from him. Could be, you know, the older ones sent to Santa Fe. I think that's pretty close to the end of the war when he was thinking of moving. 

Tell me about the end of the war. Did you hear the news in camp that Japan surrendered or you were sent before that?

My father, he must have left our furniture with his customers and gardening customers because we got all our furniture in camp. So we had a washing machine. And we had to leave it there in the library, couldn’t fit in our room. And we have a dresser. And I still remember it because it was a full mirror dresser and it looked so huge. I come back and one of the relatives took care of it for us, and that was a huge mirror. It looks so small now, but, um, yeah, we had a dresser, our bed sets, dresser drawers, what else did we have? Not too many, no sofas or anything.

They were sent to you?

Yeah. We had a washing machine. Our bedroom set, and the shortwave radio. How they let that shortwave radio get through? I don't know. That's why I said he was listening to the Japanese broadcasts and all the people would come over to listen to it. That's why I said it must have been in the end that he was taken away. Because he knew what the war situation was.

So the chronology of this event is you went to Tule Lake, your father became involved then you got the furniture, and the shortwave radio. And then he was sent to Santa Fe?

Yeah. So he must have, you know, it was pretty towards the end of the war, I’m sure, that this all happened, you know, him being taken away to Santa Fe because I don't remember him being separated too long from us.

Then you heard the news that Japan had surrendered. Or did you repatriate before the end of the war?

No. December 24th. I think it was ‘45. I remember Mom packing very hastily and taking care of all the furniture and stuff, giving it to the relatives that weren't going back. But yeah, they had some China in there. They had a bright red set of plates that they had with gold around.

That they had received it as a wedding gift, and somehow my dad, when we came back here, said he didn't care about the furniture, but he wanted those plates back. And one of my Uncle’s family was using it. They gave it back to him because it has sentimental value I guess.

So ‘45 your parents know that Japan is devastated because they listen to the radio, but they still decided to go back to Japan or they were forced to?

I think by that time he couldn't back out. But we only knew he was on the boat after we started sailing. That's why I said, how did they communicate that? That's what I wanted to know.

They never told me. We didn't know who was on the boat until we got into the ocean, because this was in Oregon on that river. And it was on a geo transport ship with General Gordon. While we were on the river, they would not let us move around.

What were you in a cabin, by itself?

No, it was a bunk bed. And once this ship started to go in the ocean, then they let us go look for my father. And that's the first time we found out he was on the boat.

And there are no lists up anymore. You just have to physically look. So there are hundreds of people doing the same thing.

I’m sure. And that's why my mom and my sister got so seasick. They were in bed all the way through.

And how many days did it take?

14 days. My father and I never got sea sick so, that's the one time I really enjoyed getting close to my father. For me, those two weeks were heaven.

And so when we landed in [Japan], even then, they kind of did something strange there. They let the men off first. And the women didn't get off until 4:00 in the afternoon. I think we landed in the morning or something. And then my dad is waiting out in the cold for us. And the first thing he said was, “I made a mistake.”

He could already tell. Being on the dock. Those were his first words? 

But you got to make a go of it, you know?

Right. I bet other men were saying the same thing to their family. So you spent five years (in Japan) not eating that great, studying extremely hard, both compulsory education and Koto, and sewing, typing. Did you make money?

No. My parents' opinion was that since I graduated, my father wanted me to get American dollars, you know, dollars was strong at that time. And he tried to go to the consulate and see if I could get a job earning dollars. And he says they found out that I couldn't do that. So he decided I should come back to the States, go back to school. Which was very rough too because my parents were still back there.

He sent you alone? In ‘50?

Yeah, with all my uncles and aunts to live with, none of them went back. They all stayed out here.

All right, so your parents didn't have enough money to come over themselves?

Well, it was still you know, he was a renunciant.

He was not allowed to. How about your mother?

My mother, too.

Okay, was that ban lifted at any point later?

Yeah, that's where Wayne Collins came in. The funny part, I don't know if this worked or not, but after I came back, I got this letter. You know, he needs some money. Of course, you know, he’s working for the renunciants. My uncle told me don’t pay them because they’re just having a good time using that money.

But I decided to start paying them a little bit monthly. And I don't know if that worked or not, but they got their citizenship back very early compared to some people. I didn't pay the full amount because I was by myself, you know, I couldn't afford paying a lot of money.

You were supporting yourself. Now you're by then 20? How old are you?

Probably 18, I had gotten a job with the National Auto Club, I guess my typing helped up.

Is that like Triple A?

Yeah. Local insurance, California, and so I was taking- I paid, I don't know how much I paid, but I put in a little bit each month. I think I paid about half of their expenses. And it took them ten years, but they were able to come back before a lot of the other people.

So you came back in ‘50, your parents came back in the ’60s? So Wayne Collins, and I don't know how many assistance he had, but they sent letters to families of renouncing asking to contribute money for the expenses?

I think so. Yeah.

And even if you didn't pay the full amount that they calculated per person, they helped you out?

I think so. The effect of my uncle's advice, I don't know what would have happened because he said, don't do it.

So you were separated from your parents for ten whole years?

Almost yeah.

I bet they were so happy.

My dad, I understand, according to my sister, she said he was miserable all that time.

In Japan?

Since they sent me back early, there are periods that I don’t know.

When did your sister come over to the United States?

She came with them because she was a lot younger. We were minors. So we had her citizenship, and they wouldn't let us renounce. It was funny, though, this one incident where my dad, right after we went to Japan, he had tried to report us [through the] city hall. You know, we were there. And then he wanted to register us as living in Japan. He said he brought his marriage license and they said it's void in Japan because it's in English. They wouldn't allow him to be married so they can't record him.

And that same process, they can't record the children either. So they said if they would record us as born out of wedlock. I remember my dad getting so mad because he said, “I was legally married and I had these kids.” So he never registered us. In the long run, that was better because I was able to come back right away. If I had been registered in Japan, there'd be a lot of legal problems. So we were living in Japan as aliens.

So you worked for ten years for National Auto Club?

Not really, because I got married in ‘51. So I left. My husband had a business so he wanted to help with the business.

And what was his company?

Private grocery. Japanese groceries.

So within a year of coming to the United States, you already found your sweetheart?

Yeah, in a way. It was very hard at that time. That's when I started picking up my Koto again and I didn't plan on teaching, I didn't think I could because I said, “Where is the interest in Koto out here?” And I had my five children in the meantime.

I would like to know if there's a certain message you would like to give to the younger generations based on your own life experiences?

Well, one thing is, I don't know. Everything is so fast nowadays. People just learn something and pick it up and make a career out of it, including someone I know that's very close to me. You got to work hard, no matter what, persevere and I think that's when you get your rewards, real rewards, not superficial, like some people I know. And that's about it.

Interview conducted by Grace Megumi Fleming. JAMsj thanks Grace for allowing the museum to archive and share these oral histories.