Nori masuda

“You know, staying outside was so scary. I didn't think I wanted to stay outside. I said, I'd rather be put in where I'm protected. Yeah. So I felt safer in that camp, that assembly center. So once I was in there, I slept good. I don't worry.”

Nori Masuda witnessed truly unique experiences during the war, from being one of the first people to help prepare the Fresno Assembly Center for the thousands of Japanese Americans about to enter the camp, to spending eight years in Japan during the occupation as part of the Military Intelligence Service, learning how to make Japanese dolls. He recalls the uncertainty and fear following the bombing of Pearl Harbor, remembering how his “heart sank” after discovering it was the Japanese. Seemingly knowing what their fate held, Nori remembers feeling safer when they were ordered into camp, feeling the “protection” of the confinement, rather than being exposed to the hatred of the general public and getting into trouble. “If I was outside, they call me something. I won't say nothing. ‘Cause if I say something, they just going to take that and start fighting.”

This interview was conducted on February 17, 2002 with Grace Megumi Fleming. Nori passed away on July 14, 2018 at the age of 101. 

Can you start by telling me your full name?

My name is Noritaka Nori Masuda. I was born in Fresno. My birthdate is September 11, 1916. 

Would you like to paint me a picture of how life was like before Pearl Harbor? We can start with your parents.

Oh, well, I was born in Fresno, of course. And then my dad and mom, they had a store in a Japanese town there. They had a bookstore and all kinds of Japanese goods at that time.

Were your parents born here or in Japan?

They were born in Japan. They were from Hiroshima. My dad came about 1898. And before that, I think his older brother was here, and he had established a business already. And then when he went back in about 1910, my father took over the store.

Oh, I see. So, you know, most Japanese Americans, they moved around a lot from farm to farm. But you had a stable base?

Those days, it wasn't as good as today because we were just living in an apartment, a two room apartment. Of course, there were only four of us then. And then others were out. And then by the time we evacuated, we were a full family.

What kinds of things did you do when you were growing up? Did you have to do chores before and after school?

Oh well you know, we used to try to get jobs right away during the Depression. I worked in a different kind of restaurant. And they hired you for a couple of days or so when they're busy. I worked as a dishwasher, waiter. We do everything at the restaurant. Yeah. And we didn't get any days off either. Summertime when we had to, I had a job. You have to work right through. No days off. 7 days a week we used to work.

So a restaurant can just hire you for two days?

Couple of days? Yeah. And then I also had a newspaper route. I used to deliver a newspaper on a bicycle and we had a bag on our shoulder and we used to deliver. I used to deliver Rafu Shimpo. And Hokubei, they called it then. And I had that during my high school time when I was in high school.

When you graduated from high school, what did you do?

After graduation, you know, there was no job again, you know? My dad, asked me if I wanted to go to college but I said no, I'm not going to go to college because there are so many – prejudiced, you know, you couldn't get a good job anyway.

Right, right. 

So I said, I want to work. And then that's all I've been doing. Working. Still working.

So in 1936, things were improving and you decided not to go to college. You were working at Rose Bottling Works? And did you stay there until Pearl Harbor?

Yes, I was working then. And then, after Pearl Harbor. That was December 7, 1941. We were still delivering at that time. And then the law came up saying that all Japanese will not be able to travel more than five miles. 

So, you know, there's no business, you know, going to parlors ten miles and then you can only go five miles. You can't even deliver anything. So the Bottling Work just stayed in Fresno and they did it. And then we had to get some other job anyway. So I helped around at the church because during that time, all the ministers were picked up when they were taken away and we didn't know where they went.

That must have been a very unsettling time.

Yeah, it was a scary time. And I didn't know what's going to happen at that time. When Pearl Harbor started.

Was there violence in Fresno?

There were some. There were some families out on the farm they got shot at. From the road, you know, but not very many.

But, you know, there was a curfew put on us. From 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. so we couldn't even get out of our yard. Once you got out of your own yard and if you got beaten up it's not their fault, it's our fault for being out there. So we never went out. 

Some people who'd been following the news thought that something like this might happen, Pearl Harbor might happen, and they might be sent away. Did your family have any inkling of that? Was it a complete surprise?

Surprised, yeah. In fact, when we entered the war, we were going to go out and play basketball and somebody heard it over the radio in their car. And then said, “Nori, come here. Listen, listen. Oh, they're bombing Pearl Harbor, Japan is bombing Pearl Harbor.” We didn't even know where Pearl Harbor was. We didn't know much about the history of Hawaii. And everybody said, “Where’s Pearl Harbor?” Nobody knew. And once it was in Hawaii, then we got to know more about it.

When did you actually find out that this meant war? 

Well, when I came back from a basketball game, I said, “There must be some kind of news on the newspaper or something extra should be coming up.” And sure enough, when we went back, I saw the kids signing paper extra, “War In Japan” and all that. Oh, our heart sank right there. Being Japanese, you know.

Well, it was a few more months until Executive Order 9066 was signed. Do you remember first hearing that you would have to move? Evacuate?

I thought they would never move us. I thought that was just an exaggeration. I didn't think, you know, 100,000 Japanese or 120,000. But I didn't think it was going to happen. But it did when we heard Roosevelt [make the] announcement. That’s when it came to – I came to realize, it’s coming true like that, and it was scary after that.

So a lot of people that lived on the coast, they thought Fresno was a safe place. And they moved to Fresno. But it so happened that the black line was right in the center of Fresno. Broadway was the dividing point. And most of them that came up to Fresno, they had to move right away too. I remember. Cause Mr. Himi, he said they want volunteers to work in the [assembly] center, as a cook, dishwasher, pot washer. You know.

Mr. Himi, was?

He was one of the, uh, sort of our leader, like, you know.

Is that a Japanese name?

Yes. You know, he’s the one that kind of recruited. And then he said, you get your pay anyway, you know. Well, we figured, they’re going to pay us. But pay was so low, now the labor work was $8.

For a day or?

No, no, that's a month.

What kind of work did you do when you went to the assembly center?

Yeah, I went. See what we did was, they hired all the kitchen helper. Cooks, assistant cooks, waiter, bus. And then the only job we could get was labor. So we washed pots and pans and all, and that was our work. And there was, you know, in those days when the groups came in, they came in by 500 and they're going to be fed three meals a day. But dining in the mess hall, is about 175 people you can accommodate at one time. So you have to eat in three shifts. Assembly center was all like that, three shifts. There section we call ABC A-K, there's 12 sections and then each group would come in. So we had to feed the next group that came in. So this was all Japanese that was going in there now. So our crew, we had about 30 volunteers, and then they hired some administration with two people coming in. You had to keep a record of who's coming in and all that. And they hired me for that too. So they must’ve hired about 50 people at that first volunteer.

Wow. Such massive organization.

I did it for about a month for $8. And then, I talked to some of my other friends, I said, “Geez you know, people coming in like this. I have to get out of this.”

You're probably working 12 hours a day? So you might start at 6:00 in the morning?

Something in the morning like that. That first month was a ruckus because we had no system then. Then we started getting smarter and said, “Everybody throw their dish in the garbage cans or whatever.”

Did you think about how wrong this was? Did you have time to think about it?

We didn't think a lot. You know, staying outside was so scary. I didn't think I wanted to stay outside. I said, I'd rather be put in where I'm protected. Yeah. So I felt safer in that camp, that assembly center.

So once I was in there, I slept good. I don't worry. If I was outside they call me something, I won't say nothing. Cause if I say something, and if I said something, they just going to take that and start fighting.

Right. It was really scary, wasn't it?

Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Would you be willing to talk to me about the loyalty questionnaire?

Yes, that's ok.

It's a questionnaire that caused a lot of trouble for people because it was poorly worded. And if you answered yes/yes, you were loyal. And if you answered yes/no or no/yes or no/no, anything else branded you disloyal. How did you answer these two questions?

Well there was a lot of discussion in our family. You know, my dad heard something about this question, and he didn't know what to do. And we looked at it and said, well we're not going to go to Japan. Our family from the start, we said we're not going to Japan. We don't know the language, we can't speak it. And, you know, we're going to be humiliated by them if we do go back. And then we got Jimmy, he’s in the Army already. He was in the Army in April of 1941 already. And my brother was in medics, Fort Sheridan, Illinois. Then from there he was transferred into the combat for 442nd. And then about a year later, my brother Mike went into the army before I did.

Oh, even though he was younger. And what month did you say?

Oh I don't know what month or what, but was in Detroit, but I got hurt. So I came back to camp. And then during that time, the camp started to close. So I stayed in the camp until we moved to Rohwer.

So you're saying that when Mike was drafted, you had already left camp and you were in Detroit?

I came back to camp and my brother was in Michigan or someplace working.

And that’s Mike?

Yes Mike. And then I think he was drafted and then I find out that camp is going to close, so I might as well help packing up and this and that. So I had help until we moved back. I’m told, “Where do you want to go back? Close to California or what?” They said, “No, we would rather be close to you.” If we go to the army, you'll be taking your training in Camp Robinson, which was right [there]. We took training later on when I got a call.

Where is Camp Robinson?

Camp Robinson is in Arkansas. It's only about 100 hundred miles from the camp. See there's two camps there, Rohwer and Jerome. And so they said they feel more safer in Rohwer than up the coast. So they moved to Rohwer. Once they got settled I went out to camp again. Out of camp. and I went to a New Jersey call, Seabrook Farm.

Lots of people went there.

Lot of these people went there. In fact, Mr. Seabrook was the owner, and he was real good to the Japanese Americans there. So a lot of people went there. And then I got my call. So I was drafted from there. So I came back to camp, then from camp. And there, the service.

How come you didn't go into the 442nd? They weren't taking anymore?

Well, yeah. First you have to have training. You know, you got to finish your basic training. Then they assigned you, “Go to Mississippi.” Then we're set to go to Europe, after our basic training. I did basic training in Robinson. When I was finished, we're all set to go to Europe, so we're all getting ready to pack up and then on that day, they say all the so and so names. “Nori Masuda, report to headquarters.” 

And then they mentioned that there was about four of us in our company and we were all called, so we had to go to the headquarters and once we went to headquarters, there were about 100, almost 100 Nisei there. And then we knew something was up. I figure, I think they're going to send us to MI. Military Intelligence. Sure enough, it was that. 

And then we saw a lot of our friends, my friends, were all there too. So we greeted each other up, and then we had a special troop train, just troops, you know? We were all taken to Minnesota and then we had to go to school there. And then upon graduation, they sent us to Japan, in fact, from Minneapolis. We went home first and then we reported at Fort Lawton, Washington. That's up Northwest. Then from there we took a ship and then we went to Japan.

Now, when you went to Japan, this is post-war occupation?

Occupation. And so we were lucky I guess.

You weren't in combat.

No, no combat at all.

How about your brothers, Jimmy and Mike?

Jimmy was in the 442nd. Then, my other brother Mike, was in the occupation and he was in Japan already. In fact, he was in Japan when I came to Japan. 

My brother Jim was in Fort Sheridan. I think that's in Illinois, something in the medics line. But they called him to Mississippi, then infantry. So he was with the 442nd.

Where did he fight?

He was in Italy. I don't know exactly. We never asked each other or what they had done, you know. They don't want to talk about it. You know, what happened.

Yes. I've talked to a few people who don't want to talk about it. So what what's your guess? What makes him not want to talk about it?

I don't know. They did talk about it but you know, “God,” he said, “I don't want to talk about it. Killing this and that and all.” We don't, I don't push him like that. But he was lucky, you know, healthy, and he came back. 

When I interview people about WWII, the camp was hard, but they often say that resettlement was even harder because they had nothing to go home to. How about your family?

Well, when I was in Japan, you know, I got my discharge in Japan because I didn't want to go back to the states right away because there was still prejudice. It was still pretty bad, yeah.

What year is this?

This is about 1947. Yeah. I got my discharge in Japan. And they let us have our discharge papers there you know, and then we applied for a job, civil service job in Japan and then I stayed another – about six years there. I came back in 1954 to the states.

Okay. So your parents though had to resettle. Did they come back to Fresno?

Yes, they came back to Fresno. They came back to Fresno in 1946. And before I left for Japan, I stopped in Fresno and my folks were living at the church's hostel, had a room, set, and it was small. It was crowded and all that. And they can’t rent a house yet, you know? And then about two years later, one friend came to my father and then they said he had a rental if you want it. So he said yes and then they had a rental house and a three bedroom or something like that. So they moved right away out of the hostel there. And then we stayed there a while, two or three years. Then, I wasn’t home, so I was in Japan. We knew we had to get a home, so we had somebody build a home for us. This was about 1915. Around there they found a place where my friend was building a home. So we got him to build our home and then we stayed there. 

How did you earn the money? I mean, were you paid well in occupied Japan?

In Japan, it was a good, civil service, you know? I was working for the United States Civil Service.

What were you doing?

I was sort of supervising at the PX, post exchange. That's equivalent to an Army department store, they have a friendly deal too. Some servicemen, they're married, they've got kids and all that. You got to have baby food and this and that, so they can buy just about anything there.

Yeah, I was thinking about 1950. You built a home in Fresno, and I imagine you pooled your resources together.

Oh yeah, we all pooled together. My sister. My brother. Then I used to help, I used to send money. So we got the first payment like that down payment. And the builder was Japanese, he was one of my friends, he’s building homes, see? So we bought our first home right there by Edison High School in Fresno. And it stayed there about 20 years. And then I moved from there to here in 1967.

I do have a question about redress. Were you involved in that movement?

Well, I was for it. Yes.

Were you surprised?

Yes, I was. Never thought it will ever get to that, huh? 

How did you feel when you got your apology letter and the check?

Well, I didn’t expect it. Yeah. But I felt good. Well, you know, that [apology] was good enough. But I never thought about getting $20,000 like that later on. But it sure helped, yeah.

Having gone through this experience of being wrongfully incarcerated, do you have a message you’d like to give to young people now? Words of caution?

Yeah. Just a word of caution, not to happen again. That's all I worry about. 

Interview conducted by Grace Megumi Fleming. JAMsj thanks Grace for allowing the museum to archive and share these oral histories